What a cool old gun. I’m mainly a S&W guy and somehow it had escaped my notice that Colt used to make the Police Positive with a target sight. Thanks for an interesting article.
Great article! I had a similar experience with a 1954 Police Positive in .22 with a 6" barrel. When I got it, it was filthy, and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in decades. During my initial clean, there was actually a lead tube that was pushed out! It was so fouled that I was unable to use a jag in it until I had run a brush through it many many many times.
The first range session, it shot 25 rounds reasonably accurate, then started key holing bullets. An inspection with a bore scope showed the degree of fouling and even fire cracking near forcing cone that still remained.
I spent a lot of time with patches wrapped on an old bronze brush, and polishing paste, cleaning and polishing up the barrel. It did clean up, although not perfectly, but now it shoots acceptable. I suspect this might have been practice firearm in a police dept (from the history I was given), used to train with instead of .38 special. This was apparently a not uncommon practice to save on ammo costs.
Anyway, I can't even imagine the round count it has, but after a lot of patience and careful work, it's a fine shooter now. The trigger sure is smooth!
I love my Colts and my S&W revolvers both, for different reasons. My favorite tends to be whatever I'm shooting, but my Python and Model 14 K38 are probably the best examples I have of what makes them special. I just love a well made revolver in general.
What light weight composite .22 semi auto pistol suitable for small teen to learn on. I have thought about the glock but price and some complaints about reliability have been hold backs. Glock is what they will graduate to when hand and arm strength get there as that is mostly what we use. Im not bound to it though if reliability isnt there like in larger calibers.
If Glock is your brand then I would stick to that for rimfire training as well. Rimfire jams are often products of the ammo itself, waxed lead bullets are filthy and jamming comes soon after. Coper wash ammo tends to go longer without cleaning. Your girls need to learn to shoot, and clearing jams is part of that training. As far as personal preferences go, I have always like the Browning buckmark as a semi auto 22. But it is also not jam proof.
I have a police trade in glock (gen 3 g35) that i was pissed at condition when i picked it up at ffl. Advertised in vg condition. I have never seen to this day a more worn condtion pistol. All holster wear points silver. Barrel where it goes through slide worn to silver metal. So dirty it had caked carbon that would come off in flakes with fingernail.
I have glocks i purchased new that have thousands of rounds through them and still look new. Have carried for years with less wear. That thing must have had well over 20,000 rounds through it.
I was tempted to call seller and throw fit and send it back right then. Not sure why, but i decided to take it on the range as is while i was there. Shot 100 rds.. it was and still is one of the most accurate guns, smoothest action, smoothest triggers i have ever shot. I walked out irked on principle but smiling at functon of that pistol.
It was when i begin thinking of glocks as the ak of pistols. So dirty most guns would be one malf after another, old and worn, and utterly reliable. Only un ak thing about it was accuracy. I used to shoot 8 inch steel at 100 yards with it with 80% accuracy.
Actually that is a good point. Most of what i have now has been self selected for reliability which is good but it doesnt give experience in clearing different malfunctions. I have dummy rounds in all my larger calibers to train malfunctions. Not sure why i didnt even think about it in training them on 22.
So that might be a good compromise to stay in desired platform.
I have as a practical matter come to appreciate a cohesive manual of arms. Doesnt matter what i pick up in duty weapons, they handle the same so in stressful situation you dont get betrayed by muscle memory.
Sigh. Somehow i ended up with packrat genes. So i like collecting things. Books, kitchen and cooking stuff, tools, guns, etc...
since im poor i have to be ruthless with myself to make everything i do maximize utility and value as well as feed my collecting bent.
Critera starts with i want it, then is filtered through a utility filter, then through a value filter. Value can be cheap but functional or expensive but quality and probably never need to replace.
I had a similar experience with my S&W M34 4". Bought it at a gunshop closing auction; it is a nickled version with the original box and all paperwork and accessories. The gun looked perfect! I got such a deal, it was almost theft. At the time, I was very cash tight, so I was quite happy.
The next day, I took 50 rounds and the gun to my backyard range. I fired the first 25 or so and the gun almost locked up tight; would not group, barley worked double action, single action was very difficult, cylinder was hard to unlock and turn, much less eject empties. I was in the "WTF did I get in to" mode. Put it away, Dad and I went to Pistol Permit, got it registered and came home. I figured I now had a junker on my hands.
A long time ago, I learned that if a machine doesn't work; either dirt and crude has built up in it or lubrication is necessary.
So out came the cleaning equipment. Took off the grips and removed the cylinder and yoke assembly. Put a straw in the brake and contact can; began squirting solvent in the guts of the revolver. A flood of black liquid followed from the action and the cylinder assembly. I kept squirting cleaner in until the fluid ran clear. Cleaned the barrel and chambers thoroughly; theyvwere similarly fouled. Properly lubed the gun with Break-Free and reassembled it.
Grabbed 50 more rounds and headed to the range. The gun started to work, shot reasonably well, then began to misbehave around 36 rounds or so. Hmmmm..
Repeated the process of cleaning with the same results. Only this time, after lubrication, this little revolver has continuously functioned perfectly; delivering amazing accuracy with nothing more than an occasional clean and lube. It rapidly became one of those in the "favorite" category.
That isn't to say I haven't applied my mechanical skills to a firearm or 10...
There's a Kimber Gold Match that had similar problems that I own. Ah, the joy of introducing a Yonkers, NY Gold Match to Mr. File to suit my needs and purposes...
Another favorite; it lives with a Kimber .22 conversion unit because I have enough 45 ACP's. Between it and the S&W M34, many rimfires are converted to holes in targets...
I love shooting 22 and have been shooting it more recently in traing my two girls 11 and 14, both on the small side. They have an aversion to bigger calibers so far but are really enthusiastic with the 22's.
I hate 22's. Lol. So love/hate relationship. Probably half the ones i have owned were malfunction magnets.
Very nice ruger mk2 competion model i had was a jam magnet after 30 rounds. Clean it and it shoots fine for about thirty rounds. Positive us it was a tack driver. Sold it. I wont keep malf magnets.
I have a old marlin glenfield mod 60.. love it.
Old savage mk II bolt action magazine fed rifle i bought new for 99$ 40ish years ago. Absolute tac driver. And reliable.
A couple of the cheap heritage rough rider 22 revolvers.. malf magnets.
Winchester wildcat, new a year or so ago. Design is about 10 years old i think. 230ish retail. Pretty much all composite design, so light. 4ish lbs i think. Absolute dream to shoot. Uses 10/22 mags. Winchesters 10 round mags are better than 10/22 ruger ones with last round hold open and 16 dollars each. One i have is only one ive tried, but its a tack driver and 100% reliable through 100s of rounds of mixed cheap bulk box ammo.
One other german 1911 clone .22. Tack driver and shoots nice. Design is deficient though as i have had it discharge on manipulating safety. Scared the shit out of me. Was barrel down range but still. Cant remember name right now. I think ati imported it.
Cricket. 22 rifle. Single shot bolt action. Starter rifle for girls. 3lbs. Favorite because of light weight of theirs. Oldest just moved to wildcat as favorite this week when she realized difference in accuracy. I disliked cricket from first time shooting it. 15 yards 2 to 3 inch groups. Wildcat bullet on bullet. Both with stock iron sights.
I have shot a bunch of others .22's similar experiences. And i was supprised how many revolvers had issues with light strikes, and bullets jamming as cylinder rotated.
In general much more expensive guns had better odds of trouble free and accurate over all but some one the budget side outperform the more expensive ones. Example, old savage mk II, browning mod 60 or newer winchester wildcat are reliable and very very accurate.
Just my opinions. I havent shot hundreds if them, just in the 10's of them. So not an exhaustive and comprehinsive overview.
I’ve been following this pistol on the FB page. I’m so glad you could make it functional. Fascinating info in this article. Keep up the great work!
What a cool old gun. I’m mainly a S&W guy and somehow it had escaped my notice that Colt used to make the Police Positive with a target sight. Thanks for an interesting article.
Good read!
Great article! I had a similar experience with a 1954 Police Positive in .22 with a 6" barrel. When I got it, it was filthy, and looked like it hadn't been cleaned in decades. During my initial clean, there was actually a lead tube that was pushed out! It was so fouled that I was unable to use a jag in it until I had run a brush through it many many many times.
The first range session, it shot 25 rounds reasonably accurate, then started key holing bullets. An inspection with a bore scope showed the degree of fouling and even fire cracking near forcing cone that still remained.
I spent a lot of time with patches wrapped on an old bronze brush, and polishing paste, cleaning and polishing up the barrel. It did clean up, although not perfectly, but now it shoots acceptable. I suspect this might have been practice firearm in a police dept (from the history I was given), used to train with instead of .38 special. This was apparently a not uncommon practice to save on ammo costs.
Anyway, I can't even imagine the round count it has, but after a lot of patience and careful work, it's a fine shooter now. The trigger sure is smooth!
Colt made a fine revolver back in the day. I prefer the Smith lockwork , but Colts always had good triggers.
I love my Colts and my S&W revolvers both, for different reasons. My favorite tends to be whatever I'm shooting, but my Python and Model 14 K38 are probably the best examples I have of what makes them special. I just love a well made revolver in general.
Correction...it was my 1954 Official Police that I worked on. My Police Pisitive is a 1926 in .38 S&W. Got my wires crossed.
Recomendations please.
What light weight composite .22 semi auto pistol suitable for small teen to learn on. I have thought about the glock but price and some complaints about reliability have been hold backs. Glock is what they will graduate to when hand and arm strength get there as that is mostly what we use. Im not bound to it though if reliability isnt there like in larger calibers.
If Glock is your brand then I would stick to that for rimfire training as well. Rimfire jams are often products of the ammo itself, waxed lead bullets are filthy and jamming comes soon after. Coper wash ammo tends to go longer without cleaning. Your girls need to learn to shoot, and clearing jams is part of that training. As far as personal preferences go, I have always like the Browning buckmark as a semi auto 22. But it is also not jam proof.
I have a police trade in glock (gen 3 g35) that i was pissed at condition when i picked it up at ffl. Advertised in vg condition. I have never seen to this day a more worn condtion pistol. All holster wear points silver. Barrel where it goes through slide worn to silver metal. So dirty it had caked carbon that would come off in flakes with fingernail.
I have glocks i purchased new that have thousands of rounds through them and still look new. Have carried for years with less wear. That thing must have had well over 20,000 rounds through it.
I was tempted to call seller and throw fit and send it back right then. Not sure why, but i decided to take it on the range as is while i was there. Shot 100 rds.. it was and still is one of the most accurate guns, smoothest action, smoothest triggers i have ever shot. I walked out irked on principle but smiling at functon of that pistol.
It was when i begin thinking of glocks as the ak of pistols. So dirty most guns would be one malf after another, old and worn, and utterly reliable. Only un ak thing about it was accuracy. I used to shoot 8 inch steel at 100 yards with it with 80% accuracy.
Actually that is a good point. Most of what i have now has been self selected for reliability which is good but it doesnt give experience in clearing different malfunctions. I have dummy rounds in all my larger calibers to train malfunctions. Not sure why i didnt even think about it in training them on 22.
So that might be a good compromise to stay in desired platform.
I have as a practical matter come to appreciate a cohesive manual of arms. Doesnt matter what i pick up in duty weapons, they handle the same so in stressful situation you dont get betrayed by muscle memory.
As they say, " beware of a man with only one gun" haha I'm far from falling into that category.
Sigh. Somehow i ended up with packrat genes. So i like collecting things. Books, kitchen and cooking stuff, tools, guns, etc...
since im poor i have to be ruthless with myself to make everything i do maximize utility and value as well as feed my collecting bent.
Critera starts with i want it, then is filtered through a utility filter, then through a value filter. Value can be cheap but functional or expensive but quality and probably never need to replace.
Sometimes even i get tired living in my head. Lol
Incredibly cool vintage piece! Thanks for sharing!
I had a similar experience with my S&W M34 4". Bought it at a gunshop closing auction; it is a nickled version with the original box and all paperwork and accessories. The gun looked perfect! I got such a deal, it was almost theft. At the time, I was very cash tight, so I was quite happy.
The next day, I took 50 rounds and the gun to my backyard range. I fired the first 25 or so and the gun almost locked up tight; would not group, barley worked double action, single action was very difficult, cylinder was hard to unlock and turn, much less eject empties. I was in the "WTF did I get in to" mode. Put it away, Dad and I went to Pistol Permit, got it registered and came home. I figured I now had a junker on my hands.
A long time ago, I learned that if a machine doesn't work; either dirt and crude has built up in it or lubrication is necessary.
So out came the cleaning equipment. Took off the grips and removed the cylinder and yoke assembly. Put a straw in the brake and contact can; began squirting solvent in the guts of the revolver. A flood of black liquid followed from the action and the cylinder assembly. I kept squirting cleaner in until the fluid ran clear. Cleaned the barrel and chambers thoroughly; theyvwere similarly fouled. Properly lubed the gun with Break-Free and reassembled it.
Grabbed 50 more rounds and headed to the range. The gun started to work, shot reasonably well, then began to misbehave around 36 rounds or so. Hmmmm..
Repeated the process of cleaning with the same results. Only this time, after lubrication, this little revolver has continuously functioned perfectly; delivering amazing accuracy with nothing more than an occasional clean and lube. It rapidly became one of those in the "favorite" category.
Yes, as a gunsmith, most people would be shocked how many "broken" guns show up at the shop that really just need a good cleaning.
That isn't to say I haven't applied my mechanical skills to a firearm or 10...
There's a Kimber Gold Match that had similar problems that I own. Ah, the joy of introducing a Yonkers, NY Gold Match to Mr. File to suit my needs and purposes...
Another favorite; it lives with a Kimber .22 conversion unit because I have enough 45 ACP's. Between it and the S&W M34, many rimfires are converted to holes in targets...
Loved the trouble shooting and fixes.
I love shooting 22 and have been shooting it more recently in traing my two girls 11 and 14, both on the small side. They have an aversion to bigger calibers so far but are really enthusiastic with the 22's.
I hate 22's. Lol. So love/hate relationship. Probably half the ones i have owned were malfunction magnets.
Very nice ruger mk2 competion model i had was a jam magnet after 30 rounds. Clean it and it shoots fine for about thirty rounds. Positive us it was a tack driver. Sold it. I wont keep malf magnets.
I have a old marlin glenfield mod 60.. love it.
Old savage mk II bolt action magazine fed rifle i bought new for 99$ 40ish years ago. Absolute tac driver. And reliable.
A couple of the cheap heritage rough rider 22 revolvers.. malf magnets.
Winchester wildcat, new a year or so ago. Design is about 10 years old i think. 230ish retail. Pretty much all composite design, so light. 4ish lbs i think. Absolute dream to shoot. Uses 10/22 mags. Winchesters 10 round mags are better than 10/22 ruger ones with last round hold open and 16 dollars each. One i have is only one ive tried, but its a tack driver and 100% reliable through 100s of rounds of mixed cheap bulk box ammo.
One other german 1911 clone .22. Tack driver and shoots nice. Design is deficient though as i have had it discharge on manipulating safety. Scared the shit out of me. Was barrel down range but still. Cant remember name right now. I think ati imported it.
Cricket. 22 rifle. Single shot bolt action. Starter rifle for girls. 3lbs. Favorite because of light weight of theirs. Oldest just moved to wildcat as favorite this week when she realized difference in accuracy. I disliked cricket from first time shooting it. 15 yards 2 to 3 inch groups. Wildcat bullet on bullet. Both with stock iron sights.
I have shot a bunch of others .22's similar experiences. And i was supprised how many revolvers had issues with light strikes, and bullets jamming as cylinder rotated.
In general much more expensive guns had better odds of trouble free and accurate over all but some one the budget side outperform the more expensive ones. Example, old savage mk II, browning mod 60 or newer winchester wildcat are reliable and very very accurate.
Just my opinions. I havent shot hundreds if them, just in the 10's of them. So not an exhaustive and comprehinsive overview.